Curse

Hawkeye · Jun 14, 2007, 12:11 PM // 12:11

I guess they figured they didn't want to see some elementalist/assasin newb try to pull of some weird combo with shiro's weaponry. Can you really blame them? Now all people who use Shiro's stuff (who was supposedly one of the best assasins), have to be assasins themselves as a primary profession. I don't think there's much room here for an argument.

If they set it to 13, even down from 15, I'm sure it's higher than 12 for a reason. If you can guess that reason, you get a cookie.

Bazompora · Jun 14, 2007, 12:41 PM // 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

theres no such thing as Dual wielding in the game... Daggers are Two handed weapons according to the game mechanics... please learn the game your playing

Those were your words I was repeating:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

warriors aren't meant to dual wield weapons

Also, Arenanet itself created the slang use of "Dual Wielding", in reference to Dagger Mastery. We all know the gameplay does not implicate dual wielding, but it's still their as an "abstract" term.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

high dagger mastery + crit strikes = better
please read and learn

You think you're teaching me something? I know that would spike way better. But a Strength W/A is meant to be played as a pressure tank and not as a swift spiker. You're disregarding the fact that a Strength W/A has alot more armor and has inherent Armor Penetration. So ... A/W better than W/A? Only if you consider nothing but the spike range.

-Loki- · Jun 14, 2007, 12:54 PM // 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bazompora

You think you're teaching me something? I know that would spike way better. But a Strength W/A is meant to be played as a pressure tank and not as a swift spiker. You're disregarding the fact that a Strength W/A has alot more armor and has inherent Armor Penetration. So ... A/W better than W/A? Only if you consider nothing but the spike range.

Use a warrior weapon. Not only do you auto attack for more each attack by the pure fact that the weapons have a higher damage range, but you also don't gimp yourself with a low weapon attribute.

Evilsod · Jun 14, 2007, 12:55 PM // 12:55

I see nothing wrong with them as req 13. Many people said it. These things belong to Shiro, obviously they thought it would be better if only Warriors and Assassins could wield his swords and use them properly.

And until someone can come up with a good reason as to why you need vampiric daggers/swords when you don't even have 13 in the mastery.... well.

Its not like Shiro's Daggers/Sword is the only 15^50 Vampiric +30 item in the game. Use a frigging Victos Blade if it bothers you THAT much.

Kale Ironfist · Jun 14, 2007, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Actually, the only reason why the OP wants them brought down is so that he can show off his Dervish with them. Anything else is 'not good enough'.

MagmaRed · Jun 14, 2007, 01:01 PM // 13:01

Never understood why ANYONE would use Shiros weapons. 15 or 13 requirement is bad, especially when you can consider other greens with IDENTICAL stats.

Shiros Blades(http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Shiro%27s_Blades) = Chkkr's Pincers(http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Chkkr%27s_Pincers), Faveo's Daggers(http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Faveo%27s_Daggers), and Stygian Daggers(http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Stygian_Daggers)
Shiros Sword(http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Shiro%27s_Sword) = Victo's Blade(http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Victo%27s_Blade) and Wahli's Blade(http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Wahli%27s_Blade)

Chkkr's, Faveo's, Stygian, Victo's, and Wahli's all offer identical stats to Shiro's, except they are req 9. If skin is THAT important to you, then the USE of the weapons doesn't matter. Run a D/A using Shiro's Blades and no Dagger Mastery.

Evilsod · Jun 14, 2007, 01:04 PM // 13:04

Magma that is beyond dumb... people use Shiro's weapons because they want to use Shiro's weapons! Who gives a flying RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO what req they have if you have at least 1 req above it (see Weakness). For all i care my Elswyths Recurve could be req13, i'm not gonna use a vampiric bow when i'm not even at r14+.

Lonesamurai · Jun 14, 2007, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bazompora

Those were your words I was repeating:Also, Arenanet itself created the slang use of "Dual Wielding", in reference to Dagger Mastery. We all know the gameplay does not implicate dual wielding, but it's still their as an "abstract" term.

Ahh, so now your pulling up my use of terminology... jeez, your really fishing for an argument huh?

/ignored... foolish mortal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bazompora

You think you're teaching me something? I know that would spike way better. But a Strength W/A is meant to be played as a pressure tank and not as a swift spiker. You're disregarding the fact that a Strength W/A has alot more armor and has inherent Armor Penetration. So ... A/W better than W/A? Only if you consider nothing but the spike range.

No comment, Loki answered it perfectly above

-Loki- · Jun 14, 2007, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Never understood why ANYONE would use Shiros weapons. 15 or 13 requirement is bad, especially when you can consider other greens with IDENTICAL stats.

If you are seriously trying to run a weapon, you should have 14/16 in it's mastery (12 + hat with rune). Ensures best damage out of the weapon, which is the whole reason to run a weapon. Thus, you should be meeting the 13 req, and if you meet the 13 req, Shiros blades are no different to any other req 9 green with the same stats.

freekedoutfish · Jun 14, 2007, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

he wants to use it on an assasin secondary with dervish as his primary and of course that means he can't get 13 in Dagger mastery unless he's an assasin primary...

of course, he also seems like the type that will let the vamp degen kill him and then shout at the monk of the group for not healing him...

I'm more worried why any profession that isnt primary Sin, would want to use Daggers?

Im sure there is some magical build, that makes them oober powerfull and skilled. But unless the daggers possessed some enchantment or buff that effected the primary profession, I cant understand it.

Why not just go Sin/Derv or Sin/? if you want to use daggers?

Evilsod · Jun 14, 2007, 01:17 PM // 13:17

Never seen the Lyssa's Emissery build? Tis actually quite a strong build for D/A.

Bazompora · Jun 14, 2007, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Well, in all honesty ... my true reason is to be able to make Twin Saber Warriors.

(Making "cool", but still effective, builds has become a pass-time for me in GW.)
The whole discussion comes down to the availabilty of a skin, and skins come down to the "coolness" factor. De facto, any motivation around keeping or lowering the requirement can only come from individual desires (since we all know that lowering the req does not imbalance the game). Therefore, Andrew's motivation is as valid as one can be.

Shortly: "it should be done, because people want it" is the most valid argument in this kind of discussion.

Of course, if you still feel the need for another "reason" ... I have a bomb!

Lonesamurai · Jun 14, 2007, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

I'm more worried why any profession that isnt primary Sin, would want to use Daggers?

Im sure there is some magical build, that makes them oober powerfull and skilled. But unless the daggers possessed some enchantment or buff that effected the primary profession, I cant understand it.

Why not just go Sin/Derv or Sin/? if you want to use daggers?

Actually i do run a D/A using Avatar of Balthazar through PvE, but thats more a running build and based around holy damage with a dagger combo... Its a pressure build as i have a warrior already

MagmaRed · Jun 14, 2007, 01:35 PM // 13:35

If a req 13 weapon is no different than a req 8 weapon, why do Warriors pay 100K+ for req 8 Swords, Axes, Hammers?

Bazompora · Jun 14, 2007, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Loki-

Use a warrior weapon. Not only do you auto attack for more each attack by the pure fact that the weapons have a higher damage range, but you also don't gimp yourself with a low weapon attribute.

With 12 Dagger Mastery a W/A would dual strike 26% of the time and the dmg (before alteration by target's armor) from single strikes would only be 8~5 less than from a sword.

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Loki-

Shiros blades are no different to any other req 9 green with the same stats.

Shiro's Blades are very different from the other daggers, in the way that they're the only daggers of which the skin looks liketwin sabers; this to say, that not everyone just plays the numbers only.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

If skin is THAT important to you, then the USE of the weapons doesn't matter. Run a D/A using Shiro's Blades and no Dagger Mastery.

The idea is still to be able to use the secondary assassin builds with Shiro's Blades.

Kale Ironfist · Jun 14, 2007, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

If a req 13 weapon is no different than a req 8 weapon, why do Warriors pay 100K+ for req 8 Swords, Axes, Hammers?

Originally, it was for vesatility reasons, until people realised that lower weapon mastery just gimped your damage, no matter the requirement of the weapon. Now, though, it's basically the same as what a rare skin does to the player-based value of the weapon. Lower requirements are harder to find, and thus people will pay more for something so rare.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bazompora

With 12 Dagger Mastery a W/A would dual strike 26% of the time and the dmg (before alteration by target's armor) from single strikes would only be 8~5 less than from a sword.

Instead of having 12 DM, why not 14/16 Swordsmanship/Axe Mastery/Hammer Mastery? You'd be dealing more damage, have less fragile combos at the expense of certain spike chains.

Bazompora · Jun 14, 2007, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kale Ironfist

Instead of having 12 DM, why not 14/16 Swordsmanship/Axe Mastery/Hammer Mastery? You'd be dealing more damage, have less fragile combos at the expense of certain spike chains.

Because I'd have put 16 in Strength allready, thus for a strength build, the difference between Dagger Mastery (12) and Swordmanship/Axe Mastery/Hammer Mastery (13) would only be a minor rune.

MagmaRed · Jun 14, 2007, 03:34 PM // 15:34

As you may have noticed, I think the Shiro weapons are crap. Because of their requirement. As I stated, IDENTICAL weapons can be obtained, but with a requirement of 9, instead of 13. Yes, using these other greens will give you the same benefits for USE, but not the look.

If they change Shiro's weapons again, they need to change the stats so they are in some way better than the other greens like them, or make them req 9.

Personally, I like the idea of Shiro's weapons being 'better'. My idea:

Shiro's Blades
7-17 Slashing Damage (req 13 Dagger Mastery)
+15% damage
3/1 Vampiric
+30 health

Shiro's Sword
15-22 Slashing Damage (req 13 Swordsmanship)
+15% damage
3/1 Vampiric
+30 health

Everything the same, except make them an unconditional +15%. That or make them req 9.

Rikimaru · Oct 03, 2007, 02:03 AM // 02:03

I was trying to figure out the coolest build I could imagine for a character, and I came up with an elonian R/A with Monument armor and Shiro's Blades, using Expert's Dexterity to spam dagger combos endlessly, while running expertise block stances.
Then I found out, Shiro's blades have a requirement of 13. So I looked around, and found out that the only sword-like daggers in the entire game are Shiro's.
So what's the point in limiting them to assassin primaries? They're greens, and end-game ones at that.

They should have a requirement of 9 like other items of their caliber. Or, you know.... EVERY OTHER ITEM GIVEN BY THOSE NPCs! http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Amulet_of_the_Mists

Please.

If they thought the problem would be that everyone and their mother would use them, why didn't they add any other sword-like daggers to the game? This is just cruel...

OI-812 · Oct 03, 2007, 02:11 AM // 02:11

This is right up there with the "fix the bear pet" and other common-sense petitions. And like the others, A.net will ignore it.

/signed for what it's worth